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  1. HashtagBadeente

    Respec Cost - How about...

    Of course, such topic tends to derail into a spec cost debate with stupid comments, but let's give it a try. To encourage and (!) maintain players participation for arena and pvp with an objectively small amount of people, it will need compromises. The compromises, that were made on Netherwing, are obviously not "blizzlike" in many aspects (rating on Season 1 Weapons; killing Arenapoints in 5s in favor for 3s; rating decay; 50 Arenapoints for the first 10 games/day). So argueing with "but back then" - no matter in which direction - can always be disqualified by the fact above: the server admins mixed up "blizzlike"- with "non-blizzlike"-elements for the better good. Handle it! But did these compromises achieve the goal, to encourage and maintain participation? Don't know. I only have the perspective of some (alliance *boo) arena/pvp-player around me and myself. And from that perspective, it seems, the pool of players participating in arena/pvp is still to small (15-20man Alterac, playing several times in a row against the same arena-team, frequently with around 200 and more rating difference). (But it's a pvp server! LULs were given ...) Furthermore, as a "newcomer", the entrance barriere to pvp in general and arena in detail (gear-, talent- and/or combo-wise) is huge (FOTM or die!) and the intrinsic motivation falls steadily, if your every-day experience is 1-9 or similiar just for the 50 points. (Who the fuck enjoys loosing 7days/week without getting some sort of cancer? RIP LUL) The worst outcome could be, that at some point the "sewer-rating" for the pyramide-like arena ratingsystem will disappear and then the outrage/problem will be even bigger. TL;DR: - Reduce the amount of arena games per day to 5 (and the Arenapoints to 25 if you want) or get rid of this daily-bonus and give a bonus for more than 35/70 games per week, so that player can choose for themselve, when they want to play. - Reduce the rating on the weapons (and offhands) every month by 50 ratingpoints (items, that other people carry, don't turn me on; only my Billy Herrington doll does that!). - Send me gold everytime I login.
  2. HashtagBadeente

    Underbog HC

    In Combination with the Armor-Reduction from Claw/the bear (-50%) and Hunter's Mark (+1500 Range Attack Bonus; Magic, that can and should be dispelled) and (!) if your tank is not immun to Critical Hit, it is possible and "normal".
  3. HashtagBadeente

    Explain me the mmr system please

    There are two things, we should differentiate: Functioning of the TBC-Arena-System vs. abusing the system. After that, we can talk about "fixing" the problems. Point 1: In the TBC Arena-System, you have to be in a team, to get access to the arena content in general (queuing up for arena) and for specific rewards (Arenapoints and rating for gear and titles). As far as i know and understand it, in TBC you/we as players and even the developers of such projects are restricted to that "Team-System" due "technic"/gamecode (you have to revamp some part of the arena system, at least the pvp menu with teams). So in a simple way: TBC Arena-System doesn't work without teams. You have to find a solution, that includes the team-mechanic. Rating-wise, in the backround there is the hidden personal MMR, but this has only influence on your queue-MMR (average personal rating of all players of a team queuing), not on your point-distribution in the team regarding a win/lose (see abvoe), because the Arean-System is based on teams/team-rating (for Arenapoints and Ratingrewards), not a personal rating. Point 2: In a competition, it's normal, that we are seeking advantages. This can lead to abusing and breaking a system, especially if it is possible and if there is no punishment. Historically, arena always was a shitfest of abusing the system. Because of the clusterfuck arena[-rating] is, Blizzard had had problems to identifiy the more tricky abuse-mechanics. As a gamer designer, you are interested in minimizing the abuse potential (because fun). And you need to identify, what and how something is abused, otherwise you can't fix the problem properly. There a two main interests in the arena system right now, that can and will be abused: getting rating for the weapon (short term) and title-cutoffs (long term). With the introdcution of rated-gear in Season 3 and 4, a typical abuse with the team-system is/was: high rated player had one high rated/gladi team (in 2s, 3s or even 5s) and join other fresh 1500 team to push them to a certain rating, crushing "lower" teams on their way. Playing aroung 1750 (weapong rating) against player with 2k-shoulder (who helped pushing to the weapong rating) back then was "normal" (=frustrating). Obviously, this happens on Netherwing too (very high Teamrating-Teams playing on a rating around weapon level rating). Without the "team"-restriction by the Arena-System, it would be an easy way to minimize this abuse, because then you would gain points individually and so pushing players/teams would be more risky. In that case [minimizing the abusive of a team fixated system], there are some solutions, for example: - Blizzards participation-percentages (weekly for Arenapoints, rating-wise for gear and season rewards) - rating decay like on Netherwing Regarding the rating-decay, it can both motivate and demotivate players with higher ratings to keep playing every week (not sitting on rating vs. pushing rating). It also could scale down the rating-pyramide to a range of ~1200-2100 instead of ~1200-2500+ (player just get to weapong rating and from that point, they just play for the Arenapoints every week without focussing on rating that much). On the other hand, right now (short term), more players are (more) interested in pushing rating for the weapons. So there could be a overcompensation resulting in frequent abuse of the team-mechanic-system (as mentioned above). A better solutions could have been to "time-gate" and not to "rating-gate" weapons (you have to gather a minimum on Arenapoints over some weeks, before you are able to buy a weapon; this motivates player to play weekly and because it is timegated, there is very little to abuse). But i don't know, if this can technically be done (see point 1 and i don't exactly know, when this timegated system was introduced in retail WoW). [TL;DR] So a better solution for Netherwing can be: reduce the weapon rating every month by 50 rating-points to decompensate the abuse potential (for example: in September (!) or after 6 (!) months the rating-requirement would be still 1650, when at the same time the pve-guild-content/progress will advanced further). Point 3: How "big" is the pvp/arena community right now [and when are peak times?] and in 3 or 6 months?
  4. HashtagBadeente

    Explain me the mmr system please

    Can you enlighten us with some more details? A Link to the post? A quote of the changelog? Couldn't find anything, that would help on this case. Historically, hidden and current MMR and gaining/losing points are a cluster fuck. If (!) teddysftw's information on the ratings are correct, then ELO-wise there are two ways of distributing the points: If your team wins, you gain 27 Points, your opponent loses 27; if your team loses, you lose 4 points, the other team gains 4 points. Practically gaining 15 points means ELO-wise, that your opponent was around 20 Ratingpoints lower than your team. That your opponent lost 8 points means, they were around 300 (!) rating points below your (or their) 2250 rating. So obviously, there is a contrast between theory and practice. Because in practice, there is (your current) hidden MMR, that will influence that distribution. (Your current) Hidden MMR is by definition invisible to any player and a black box. That's why nobody can tell you anything concrete (obviusly, I'll try to do so, but it can be wrong). In theory: If your win-lose-statistics on your actual rating are around 50/50 (you win some, you loose some, but you don't have a win streak [anymore]), then your hidden MMR is equal to your actual rating. That means, the system wants your there, because you belong there. If you having a win streak from that point on, your hidden MMR will slowly progress to a new one (and vice versa). Secondly, the (difference in each) personal ratings of any player in a given team can influence all that (see http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/6440951169.htm). If you rotate players regurlarly, that are on fairly equal skill and rating level, the influence isn't that high. If you rotate low with high ratings, the influence is higher. So some possible answer to your question could be: (1) Your opponent was mixing up players, someone (or "sometwo") had have - compared to their actual rating und your rating - a (much) lower rating. In that case, there average personal rating was far lower than there team rating; rating-wise, your opponent wasn't a "real current" 2250 team, it was a "temporary" ~1920 team (see http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/en/5963178394.htm regarding the "gaussian distrbution filter"; this is consistent with the above information). [Edit 1+2: Maybe, they wanted to push someone up to the rating requirement for the weapons. The consequences in the visible rating wasn't that high [-8], but the hidden MMR of the "real current" 2250 could have drop drastically [-27].] (2) On Netherwing, they added some ingredients to the magic potion. For the ELO-numbers i pulled, i used the formula in https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Arena_PvP_system